Peace Corps Applicants

I'm hoping someone on the list has experience in this problem, because I certainly haven't a clue what to advise this student!

My student is a 4.0 biochem major in her junior year. She's been planning on taking the MCAT this April, graduate a year from this May and go into the Peace Corp for a 2 year stint, then, hopefully, move directly into medical school. She will most likely perform well on the MCAT since she is such a diligent student who normally tests well (30 on her ACT and an honor student.)

The questions: Will her 2002 MCAT score still be useable? Should she hold off until April 2003 to take the test? Will medical schools defer her for 2 years if she goes through the application process this summer? Or is it better for her to apply a year before she finishes the Peace Corp? How difficult can it be to go through the application process while in the Peace Corp in some remote country?

Your help is always valuable and I know will be of help to both my student and to me. If you'd like, you can email me directly at [email protected].

Thanks in advance,

Nancy Blass   University of Oklahoma 405/325-2457

Don't know the specifics but I hope and pray she has no difficulty getting
in. Her interests already make her highly probable to choose primary care
and locate in an underserved area upon completion of training.

Anyone who has had such students who have done Peace Corps or similar
programs but have had problems getting in to medical school, I would like
to hear about.

No names please.

A dream study would be to take such a group who were rejected and follow
them over time, whether they made it into medical school or however they
chose to make a difference with their lives.

Another study would be a demo of requiring participation in service
programs in college to screen for medical school, on a par with the
admissions interview or as an additional bonus factor.

Small steps first, just need to get an idea how much this happens first as
this is not easy to track.

Robert C. Bowman, M.D, Co-Chairman
Rural Medical Educators Group of the National Rural Health Association
UNMC Department of Family Medicine Director of Rural Health Education and
Research
983075 Nebraska Medical Center
Omaha, NE 68198-3075
(402) 559-8873 or fax at -8118
Email: [email protected]
http://www.unmc.edu/Community/ruralmeded/

First of all, we heard tales of woe last summer concerning medical school applicants from overseas who had inadequate or very expensive access to the Internet and who couldn't use an alternate method to interact with AMCAS. Also, we heard about participants in the Peace Corps and the like not being able to freely return to the USA for admissions interviews. Yes, your student may have a more difficult time applying to medical school from an underdeveloped country.

Second, it seems your student has a good shot at being admitted to medical school for the fall 2003 class. Once accepted, she MIGHT be able to secure a deferred entrance to serve in the Peace Corps. That would depend on the individual medical school.

However, assuming this student is accepted to medical school, why wouldn't she attend immediately, earn her M.D., and then serve overseas? If helping the impoverished is her goal, wouldn't she be able to do more for them as an M.D. than as a college graduate? And, aren't there some medical school loans that would be forgiven for overseas service?

Joseph H. Lechner, Ph.D.
Professor of Chemistry
Mount Vernon Nazarene College
800 Martinsburg Road
Mount Vernon, OH 43050-9500
[740] 397-9000 extension 3211

 Nancy,

I am a former Peace Corps volunteer and applied to grad school while in the
Philippines. I also have had several premed students go the Peace Corps
route. Let me offer my impressions and opinions:

1) Will her 2002 MCAT score still be useable? Should she hold off until
April 2003 to take the test?

Check the Med School Admissions requirements book for the schools she
intends to apply to. They generally will list the latest MCAT score they
will accept. For example, for the 2002 entering class, the Univ of Oklahoma
Med School will accept the 1998 MCAT - 4 years old.

It is probably best for her to take the MCAT before she enters the Peace
Corps - if the school will accept the scores from before she left. It is
almost impossible to take the MCAT while in the Peace Corps since it is
only offered in a few spots outside the USA. If she plans to take it when
she returns she needs to be sure she will be back in the USA on time - she
needs to check her completion of service date. Applying for the MCAT from
abroad should be easy since it can be done on line and I gather that most
Peace Corps offices now have internet connections. She should also realize
that studying for the MCAT is going to be difficult while abroad. The
reference books may not be available and time will be in short supply. My
own experience is that if the MCAT is not taken before entry into Peace
Corps, the student should plan on being back a year to study for the MCAT
and thus defer entry for 2 years after returning.

Two students of mine who recently completed Peace Corps service are good
examples. One tried to study for the MCAT while overseas and found he
really could not adequately prepare himself. He took the MCAT when he
returned and did poorly. The other came back for 2 years, prepared while
back in the US, did well and is now in Med school at Johns Hopkins.


2) How difficult can it be to go through the application process while in
the Peace Corp in some remote country?

Depends on the country but it will be cumbersome at least. With WEB based
applications, the AMCAS application should not be a problem assuming again
that she has WEB access. Getting secondaries and having letters of
recommendations sent could be a big problem. Depending on the country and
the remoteness of her assignment, mail delivery can be slow and
unpredictable. In my case, for example, there was no mail delivery to the
barrio I lived in. I had to go to the post office in town - when I got into
town - to get mail. Theft is also a big problem in some areas, especially
official looking mail that some might think contains money. Some med
schools are now allowing on-line secondaries so this problem may also be
solved if she has WEB availability. She should certainly have all of her
letters of recommendation set before she leaves for her assignment if she
plans to apply from abroad. She will need to plan to be back in the USA
when interviews come around.

Lest all of this sound negative: The Peace Corps experience is a marvelous
one and I would expect would enhance her application greatly. You didn't
mention her work area with Peace Corps. Will she will work in any health
related area? I know the Peace Corps has volunteers doing nutrition
counselling, pre-natal/post-natal counselling and other health related work
in some countries. They also encourage volunteers to be active in other
areas in their community. My student who is now at Johns Hopkins worked
extensively in an African hospital and had experiences a US premed would
never have - some of which were harrowing: helping care for 20+ victims of
a bus accident, some of whom were badly burned - as one of only a handful
of medical personnel in the hospital at the time. I have told students that
in my opinion, even if the Peace Corps experience costs them a year or two
delay before entering medical school, its worth it!

Ron Gratz
 

Nancy:

I'm an RPCV (Returned Peace Corps Volunteer - Philippines I - 1961-63). While I would certainly recommend that your student accept the opportunity to join the Peace Corps (the experience transformed my life), I'm inclined to recommend that she enter medical school now while her book knowledge is fresh and she can do well on the MCAT, complete her medical training and then volunteer for overseas assignment with a medical group (e.g., Doctors Without Borders). The foreign country to which she is assigned will need her medical knowledge and services desperately.

Marcel Gregoire

Merrimack College

The Question:

Why wouldn't she (Peace Corp candidate) attend (Med School) immediately,
earn her M.D., and then serve overseas? If helping the impoverished is her
goal, wouldn't she be able to do more for them as an M.D. than as a college
graduate? And, aren't there some medical school loans that would be
forgiven for overseas service? Joseph H. Lechner, Ph.D.

One possible answer (of many):

First impressions are very powerful for any new learner and especially at
the initiation of any new training. If you want to do any reforms in
medical education, you must start at the beginning. Orientation is by far
the best time to have impact on students lives. Medical educators have
found out that successful reforms must be implemented at the start of
training for them to work. These include doctor-patient interviewing,
problem-based education, small group development, etc.

In my area of rural medical education, first contact programs are key. We
commonly kid each other about using the Chicago method of voting early and
often. East Carolina and East TN have students spend a weekend with a rural
physician and their family. A first year preceptorship in rural practice is
a key component at WWAMI, Nebraska, and other sites. Mercer has an eight
week preceptorship in family medicine as the transition from basic science
to clinical. NHSC scholars who have a first practice in underserved areas
may not always stay in that practice, but they tend to choose underserved
practices when they do leave. How M-1 students spend their summers can have
a great impact on their careers (research, service-learning, etc.). Since
the NHSC decided not to continue our program we will miss it, and possibly
the students that fed into it.

My point is that if this student, who has a strong desire for service, does
not explore and confirm this desire, she might not come back to this first
love later. Medical school has a powerful socializing effect and almost all
of the influences are away from this direction (Melvin Konners work, Renee
Fox work, the book Boys in White). Also she may not have the opportunity
later. Medical students are 90+% unmarried upon matriculation. Over the
next 7 years they are more likely married than not. Male or female, family
influences may preclude even a few months overseas much less 2 years.

If she is strong willed and set on a career pathway this direction, then it
might not matter. If she is not, then it could.

The second reason to go to the Peace Corps is to confirm that medicine is
her best pathway. Given her relative youth, she might find another pathway
for her career goals.

Finally, medical students who have had experiences such as this can have a
tremendous impact on their classmates, their communities during training,
and their institution. It may take them many years after training to
develop to this degree of impact. Imagine how powerful this effect would be
if we had even 20% more medical students with more life experiences before
matriculation. I think this has to do with being someone who is discipled
and humbled coming in rather than coming in naïve and not having time to
develop perspective so that you can see more clearly the role that you
will have in the future. This is also a plus for those that have been in
other health careers before medical school.

Regarding loans etc. for overseas service: The past decade has not been
kind to those planning to go overseas as missionaries or serving
physicians. Loan repayments and scholarships entice many in the military, a
few in the National Health Service Corps, and many with state loan
repayments. Those going overseas have very few sources. Mission boards
often require all debts to be paid up before they will consider candidates,
this includes loans and credit cards. Some very widely publicized programs
gather funds to offset this debt and send medical missionaries on their
path sooner, but these are very, very, rare and often accessible through
specific criteria (denomination, specific seminar training, etc.).

Again first impressions are very, very influential, for one career path or
another. Once the US way of living has entangled them (lifestyle, family
issues, etc.), or once medical education has influenced them toward urban
subspecialization etc., their first love seems farther and farther from a
possibility. We lose many missionaries and altruistic students this way.

The other problem that they have is common to all servants who tend to be
amiable: They are not driven and organized and assertive enough to ask for
the funds to be donated.

Ideally such students would have an institution that would help them do
both medical school and service experiences. We have M.D/Ph.D. programs,
fueled increasingly by massive increases in the National Institute of
Health budget. We do not have M.D./Servant degrees though. Actually it is
sad to think of the need to restore servanthood to medicine, but this need
expands with each passing day and each technological advance.

Being a servant of the public requires choosing people that choose to take
the time that it takes to serve. These students must then resist all of the
influences that will attack this time (personal, discipline, peers,
education, society, family) in the future. If this student who is
interested in the Peace Corps does not take the time to understand what it
takes to serve, she will probably not take the time to serve later (or it
will take many years).

Robert C. Bowman, M.D.
[email protected]

Thank you so much for your thoughts on this subject. I tend to agree with your assessment and feel she should make her application, go to medical school and utilize that knowledge to its fullest through her service in whatever form it should be, Doctors Without Borders being high on my list. I will pass your advise on to her.

Thank you again,

Nancy

Joseph:

You've made some very good points, and several I hadn't (I'm reluctant
to admit) thought of! I like that angle about agencies forgiving loans for
overseas service. I'll check into it, or, better yet, I'll have my student
do the checking. I agree with you, as well, and feel that she should apply
for 2003 and complete her medical education before doing service. However,
I'm hoping, with all fingers, toes and eyes crossed as well, that AMCAS
performs much better this next cycle. How could it have been much worse?
It was heartbreaking to hear of the woes of students attempting to apply
from overseas.

Again, your thoughts are greatly appreciated and will be put to good
use.

Nancy

Ron:

So good to hear from you. I thought I'd heard that you'd served in the
PC. Your perspective is greatly appreciated and I'll be passing your
thoughts on to her. As far as I know, she's not terribly particular about
her area of service. She's of Middle Eastern descent, so I suspect she
would prefer serving in India. She's prepared herself by taking vo-tech
courses in health care and is experienced in blood drawing/handling. She
has so much potential; I want to be sure I give her the best advise
available.

The general concensus so far has been that she should take the MCAT in
2003, do her service and apply with a 2-year-old score. MSAR does list OU
as taking 4-year-old scores, but I think that's been changed since
publication, since I've heard rumors recently that they want nothing beyond
2 years old. If she were to take the April 2003 test, start service in
June, and return in 2005 to complete her application, she'd have a year to
brush up on academics prior to starting in 2006. It seems a bit chancy to
try to apply from overseas.

Again, Ron, thanks for your input. Are you going to Las Vegas in June?

Thanks,
Nancy

Please be gentle with me while I plead with you. This student is asking
about an alternative. She has already prepared herself to be able to make a
contribution and be a part of a health care team. She does not need
consensus, she needs to explore what she wants to accomplish. She has a
very different perspective that must be explored.

We must be careful not to limit our comments to just what is the next step
in the process. The process itself can have undesirable impacts on
candidates.

1. Life in the United States has grown incredible entangling in the last 40
years. Once a student commits to medical school and urban lifestyle and a
career in medicine, there is little chance of getting out (debts, delayed
gratification, family, peer expectations). This is compounded by the
relative immaturity of students pursuing medical careers.

More maturity might make a difference in making sense of the entanglements
and making choices that are important for the long term. Two years and a
Peace Corps experience will make a major contribution to maturity.
Something about who chooses medicine or how they are trained (probably
both) leads to a delay of maturity. There are many doctors who graduated
from residency training who are 29 years old but with a high school
maturation.

2. Book knowledge may be important in medical school, but it means very
little to a practitioner. If she is a likely primary care practitioner and
especially if she is interested in the underserved, she will need to do
complex problem solving in multiple dimensions. See this article
Technician, Friend, Detective, and Healer: Family Physicians' Responses to
Emotional Distress at
http://www.jfponline.com/content/2001/10/jfp_1001_08640.asp Book knowledge
may help the technician, friend is a personal category, but detective and
healer are more active processes that require integration, problem solving,
maturity, experience, and dedication.

She will get valuable experience in this area in the Peace Corps that she
will not get in most medical training. It is true that if she is away from
the US for 2 years and away from college and books, then it may take some
catchup in the first semester of medical school. If she is accepted, she
will have a 95% chance of passing medical school regardless of whether she
is behind in books or not. So much is new material anyway, or is relevant
per specific exam or test.....

3. Previously mentioned is that Peace Corps transforms lives. We need such
transformed people to be doctors. We have many medical students who grind
out 3 or 4 years of college and go right into 4 years of medical school.
Many have no clue during this time why they are doing so. We have few
students who have a clue of the challenge of medicine or the full potential
held by such a career.

Oddly enough medical school will not give students this perspective. Long
term overseas experiences such as the Peace Corps might just transform her
life.

These experiences will give her something that is missing in medical
school. The following areas are regularly listed as deficiencies in the
medical school experience in the surveys of exiting senior students by the
AAMC (GQ). The following include all of the topics that are listed by 25%
of students (or more) as inadequately instructed: Health issues for
underserved populations, epidemiology, biostats, risk assessment and
counseling, occupational medicine, culturally appropriate care of diverse
populations, cost effective care, quality assurance, practice management,
medical record-keeping, managed care, law and medicine, genetics
counseling, complementary and alternative medicine, human sexuality, family
dynamics, palliative care, end of life care, domestic violence, and
cultural differences and health related behaviors/customs. Unlike all of
the other ones, the final one listed actually "worsened" from 31.5 to 32.8%
of senior students.

Reflect on Kennedy's words, "Ask not what your country can do for you; ask
what you can do for your country." If she is a person who is interested in
what she can do for her country, I think she can do much more with Peace
Corps plus medicine plus whatever she chooses and impacts during medical
training and after. If she is a person who is asking what her country can
do for her, then she should choose what she desires regardless of our
advice.

When an advisor is one on one with a student, there is no consensus. It is
like being with a patient. There may be lots of training and experience,
but what happens is mainly a product of the patient with the doctor
helping. With a health advisor or teacher or counselor, the same
limitations apply. The only thing that counts is what that student decides.

There is no right or wrong decision from our perspective. There is only her
decision about what she wants to do with her life.

As Camille Ibbotson stated in the recent essay thread, her goal is to help
students get to know themselves better and to become clearer on their own
motivation for becoming doctors. This is over and above essays or MCATs or
applications or preparation.

I think we, as advisors, would have consensus on this higher calling, even
given our personal and environmental limitations.

Robert C. Bowman, M.D.
[email protected]

Thank you Robert Bowman, you speak my mind. Several of my students
have entered the Peace Corps upon graduation from Earlham and two
years later have matriculated in medical school. They are the richer
by the experience and they believe that they are better doctors and
human beings as a consequence of stepping outside the box in their
training.

Robert -- I didn't want to clog the list with a public response, but felt
I wanted to tell you -- your response to the Peace Corps discussion was
beautifully phrased.
Robin
*********************************
Robin Wagner, PhD
Coordinator, Human Biology
Michigan State University
phone/fax (517) 432-2381
email: [email protected]

This only works, however, if their grades are in the right place before
they leave. I have had a couple of students go into the Peace Corps,
then enter medical school. Others have discovered Public Health careers
working with the medically underserved in the Peace Corps in remote
areas of Kyrgystan, Mali, etc., so that the 2 year experience was
particularly special in that regard. These particular students would
have needed further coursework in the sciences had they continued to
pursue their goal of medicine.

Cecilia Fox
 

Fellow advisors,
I am much moved by Dr. Bowman's message emphasizing the value of service
through the Peace Corps. I have heard directly from the Chair (and
witnessed in admissions sessions) how VERY favorably the University of
Wisconsin's medical school looks at Peace Corps applicants. In terms of
the MCAT, the chair has recommended that I advise students to take the MCAT
before going into the peace corps as the material will be fresher in their
minds. I have followed his advise.
.
I just thought that I'd let you know how advantageous the Peace Corps can
be to applicants. I also realize that the University of Wisconsin-Madison
campus sends more Peace Corps volunteers into the field than any other
university in the nation....

Consuelo Lopez Springfield

Dr. Bowman,

I just want to thank you for taking the time to respond so eloquently to the various topics that have surfaced (or that you have brought to our attention) on the HLTHPROF listserv. You are right on target and are a very valuable presence for this group. Before I began working at the University of Missouri-Columbia. I spent 12 years in North Dakota and am fairly well versed on issues of rural health care.

Please continue to challenge and inform!

My sincere thanks . . . Marivern

~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~**~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
Marivern Easton
Health Professions Advisor
University of Missouri-Columbia
The Honors College
206 Lowry Hall
Columbia, MO 65211
(573) 882-6224
 

http://www.semissourian.com/story.html$rec=102411

Peace Corps searching for record recruitment
By Mark Bliss<F"NIMROD MT?z9 ~ Southeast Missourian
<F"NIMROD MT?z9*JDaniel Essner can't wait to embrace the poverty of Africa.
The 43-year-old Cape Girardeau construction worker sold his house last month. He's planning to sell his two cars, including a bright red 1965 Chevy Nova. He's given away many other possessions.
"I want none of this to hold me down," he said.
Essner, who still must undergo a medical checkup, hopes he'll be embarking on his new life in the Peace Corps in May or June. For now, he's living with his sister in Cape Girardeau.
He doesn't know where he'll be working in Africa, but he's been advised it will be a rural, poor area where he can put his farming and construction skills to use. Essner grew up on a Chaffee-area farm.
"I just know I can make a difference," he said.
The Peace Corps is counting on people like Essner as it seeks to more than double the number of volunteers in the field from its current 7,000 level to 15,000 within five years. That would bring the number of volunteers back to its record levels in the early days of the program in the mid-1960s, said Joe Zucchini, a Peace Corps recruiter from Chicago.
Zucchini visited Southeast Missouri State University last week to recruit new volunteers for the Peace Corps. Most of the agency's recruits are graduating college students, although there are volunteers such as Essner who have only a high school education but a wealth of construction and farming experience.
About 35 Southeast students inquired about the Peace Corps on Wednesday at the University Center, where Zucchini had a display set up.
During his two-day visit, one student filled out a written application and interviewed for the Peace Corps.
Applications are up nationwide. Zucchini said that's partly due to the poor economy.
"As the job market goes soft, people start considering other options," he said.
Volunteers must be at least 18 years old. They are asked to commit to 27 months of service, which includes three months of training. Volunteers earn a small monthly stipend and receive health insurance.
At the end of their two-year commitment, volunteers receive a "readjustment allowance" of $6,000 and a one-year enhanced hiring status for federal jobs.
Volunteers can continue to serve in the Peace Corps if they want. Essner said he'll probably do so.
"All you have to do is watch the news and see that there are places that need help."
A divorced father, Essner wanted to join the Peace Corps 15 years ago but put his dream on hold to pay child support for his daughter. She recently graduated from college.
The Peace Corps has volunteers in 75 countries around the world. Its current annual budget of $265 million is small by federal government standards.
"It's less than the advertising budget of the Army," Zucchini said.
Teaching English in developing countries is the Peace Corps' largest single program. Other programs deal with business, environment, agriculture, community development and health.
The Peace Corps advertises itself as "the toughest job you'll ever love."
For Zucchini, it's more than a slogan.
He taught English in Micronesia from 1990 to 1992. Five years later, he returned to the field, this time with a water sanitation program in Zambia.
"It's an opportunity to make a difference in a huge way," he said.
Alison Rademaker, who teaches art at Central Junior High School, served in the Peace Corps in the Philippines for a year before her mother's ill health forced her to return home.
Rademaker taught English on a small island in the Philippines where the principal occupations were rice farming and fishing.
"It leaves an impression on you," Rademaker said. "I think you learn mostly about yourself."
Krista Hyde, a 21-year-old philosophy major who will graduate from Southeast Missouri State University in May, has applied for the Peace Corps. She went through a job interview with Zucchini on Thursday morning at the University Center.
Afterward, an excited Hyde said she hopes to work for the Peace Corps in Africa. She isn't concerned about the prospect of living in primitive conditions.
"Luxury is not the way to happiness," said Hyde, who grew up in Dexter, Mo. "I am definitely ready to give back a little."
<F"B Demi?z11 Gothic FranklinKennedy-era start<F"NIMROD MT?z9
Jill Venezian, coordinator of international community programs at Southeast, served in the Peace Corps in the rural mountains of Colombia from 1965 to 1967, teaching an adult literacy program.
Venezian, who was fluent in Spanish, joined the Peace Corps only four years after the Kennedy administration started it. College students, she said, were excited about the program.
Venezian said serving in the Peace Corps broadened her outlook on life and gave her a wide appreciation of other cultures. Her daughter, Rachel, later served in the Peace Corps in West Africa.
"I think it kind of fuels your enthusiasm for life," she said.
[email protected] 
335-6611, extension 123


 

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